Best Advice Ever From Desani and Liars, Hypocrites, Imperialists & Sages (Interview)

 

I intend to write two books as a religious duty, above all else, because it is prophesied for me and ordered for me, “That’s your purpose in life.” Rightly or wrongly. I’ve accepted this. First will be about my life. I haven’t told you enough about my follies; we are growing up and learning. And next, about these Nadi texts. There weren’t many mistakes in their predictions. G.V. Desani

I am looking at the Bible these days because I am going to address Christians, sooner or later. I asked a young friend to read to me because I have difficulty in reading. St. John’s gospel. But we have an important message. And it is a message which religion gives, Christianity gives, Gautama the Buddha gives. So, we will hope to convert nobody. I merely wish to confide in you as friends. That is the purpose of these talks. This knowledge was so new to me. I hope it is new to you, too. G.V. Desani

G.V. Desani’s “Liars, Hypocrites, Imperialists and Sages,” was from a taped
interview recorded by Naseem Khan at Desani’s Austin, Texas home in 1994. The transcription was included in Voices of the Crossing, edited by Ferdinand Dennis and Naseem Khan, Serpent’s Tail Press, London, 2000. Our friend Todd Katz has transcribed this and placed it on the site he maintains, www.Desani.org. It is listed under Articles, Lectures, and Academic Papers section.

This interview - there are no questions from the interviewer - Desani, in a conversational tone, begins by giving an early account of his family life. He speaks freely about his earliest years, about his family, their livelihood, his early travels in his teenage years and before, and his escape, I guess you could call it that, from an oppressive father and religious views he found odious, i.e., child marriage, a Hindu tradition. He particularly addresses the enmity between Hindus and Muslims, views his father held which Desani rejected. (Desani's express view, he spoke of this to his students, was that were there only one religion we would have a partial view.) He then goes into detail about how he came to be exposed to the Nadi texts, ancient prophecy, writings on palm leaf by  sages of long ago.

That brings me to the best ever advice.

I was going through some old notes recently and found one I'd almost forgotten that somewhat ties into what has been said above about religion. This is not a unique approach to the issue but it was an eye opener for this one to have it delivered by someone in whom I had placed the utmost trust.

Quote: Per GVD "The Gods aren't listening. That's why you need a device, a mantra, yantra, an intercessor, e.g. Jesus. Or "Love" of God, or their name(s), or knowledge from a teacher as to which ones have obliged themselves to listen to "man's" petitions, prayers, etc. especially from those who know their "secret" names, methods. It's all about wave lengths. Extreme austerity, self denial works too."

On this account its worth recalling an approach to the same subject in a different culture.

Socrates and a Manichean woman were walking together and she is espousing an idea, sharing a notion, with Socrates, the ancient Greek philosopher. She says to Socrates that the Gods, out of their benevolence for mankind, created love as a vehicle, a means, by which commerce could be carried on between the divine and man. That's how love came to be. It is a channel used to carry, promote, make possible, communication, contact between man and God.

If permitted I'm here going to range a bit beyond the parameters I've usually followed for posting on Desani.net Please indulge me and trust that I am not in this departing from Desani's teaching.

Desani was inclusive in his approach to these things but it hasn't always been so with his forbears. I've been studying the Mandukya Upanishad and also Buddhist philosophy, in particular that of Nagarjuna. Well, these belief systems often - usually- decried the efforts of their coevals who espoused contrary views. The Buddhists didn't believe in the Vedas while the Vedantins criticized the Buddhists as Nihilists. The Vedantins - in the Mandukya Upanishad - besides their criticism of Buddhism were critical of Patanjali, author of the Yoga Sutras, the Samkhyas according to whom Reality consists of twenty-five categories -Desani used this scheme in his teaching. The Pasupatas, similar to Samkhya but more categories, were also targeted. Iswara, the so-called presiding Deity of the solar system was also an addition to the Samkhya system by Patanjali and the yogis.

"The mutual contradictions among these different schools prove the fallacious character of their theories. The difference of opinion is due to the ignorance of the nature of Reality." So writes Guadapada in his Mandukya Upanishad which view is amplified by Sankara of whom Desani often spoke. (MU II-26)

Well, the ultimate reality is not easily grasped but characterizing it as effulgent is surely not far from the mark. All the disparate approaches to true understanding are surely part of that effulgence. Sentient life forms wherever they emerge seek the real, no doubt, and this seeking is infinite in variety. Focus is perhaps better placed on the impetus itself rather than particulars of methodology. No approach is completely wrong or completely right. Its an act of participation not competition. Relative reality, manifested being, might not be the ultimate reality in itself but neither is it different from that. In fact it is rather a means of realizing the truth. So, if your idea of God - a thing as are all ideas - gives you a semblance of understanding then who's to deny you that. The Samkhya's categories, and Immanuel Kant's too, for that matter, provide some surcease to some people's desire for the Real. That's not a bad thing in itself. Its a rich effulgence and infinite in scope just as the stars and galaxies, apparently.

Guadapada's notion of Advaita, a Vedantin notion of the absolute non-dual nature of the Ultimate Reality is surely at the apex of these endeavors to gain some insight into the Real, to Truth. And I find it interesting that in his later years Guadapada retired to the Himalayas to become a devotee, worshiper, of Narayana who was known as a man-god. Like the Christian Jesus.

Neither is it different. These ancient sages such as Guadapada, Sankara used clever devices to carry their thoughts. For instance, light and heat are not the sun but neither are they different from the sun. In fact one might say they are ways of knowing the sun for the sun finds expression in them while all the time remaining in itself a kind of ultimate reality. So, it was said, the sun is the substratum for light and heat.

Moving on. Love, Beauty, Truth, Wisdom, Courage, Liberty are not in themselves the ultimate reality but are not separate from that either. They rather are the means by which commerce can be carried on by the ultimate reality and created relative existence. We know God, that is, by knowing these characteristic effulgences. God is the substratum and is completely exhausted, that is, completely made manifest by these, by all, manifestation. Relative existence, things in themselves, are not separate from the ultimate but taken all together provide an endless, infinite, springing forth of that.

Please to pardon. Desani's interview will transport one to another time, place, almost dimension. In that it is not different from his other writings. What this student of his wants most to accomplish is making evident an essential nature of his, that of promoting harmony. Not all his spiritual forbears made that a priority, though it is my experience that the Nadi writers most certainly did. I think the true essence of Christianity likewise seeks harmony with our world's other spiritual systems. So does the best philosophy, too. I've been critical of some of the ancients here but a close reading of them - see for yourself, by all means - reveals they were sometimes more in concord with other sages than not. The Mandukya Upanishad has passages in that vein, certainly. And Nagarjuna allowed that those Theravadin Buddhists had at least made a decent first step.

So. I leave it at that.

In Retrospect

The candle wax ascends the wick

and spends itself in red perfumed light

While the ash of the incense

grows and falls

And the finite embodies the infinite

As the infinite eternalizes the finite

If only the light of the sun

We'd have a partial view

The planets tell us of other ways to see

And the moon tells us there are many ways

Of beholding the stars

Almost as soon as I matriculated at the University of Texas at Austin in 1969 I became involved in philosophical, or spiritual, or religious pursuits that tended towards the far East, and also towards ancient times in the Western world. I wasn't alone in this, of course, a great many westerners followed these tendencies. A recent discovery of mine along these lines has been Sir Paul Dukes who was a master spy of the British at the end of World War One. He lived and worked as such in Petrograd, that is Saint Petersburg. It was after he escaped certain death that his interest in Yoga blossomed and some say he was largely responsible for introducing Yoga to the Western world. He wrote and lectured and traveled extensively. Of course there are many examples of this as there seemed to be at the time a burgeoning of interest in so called Eastern thought, religion, philosophy. By the time I got to university there were several hundred students enrolled every semester in Raja Rao's classes on Mahayana Buddhism. Desani's lectures didn't attract as many which makes sense because part of the spirit of the times was freewheeling permissiveness. Mahayana Buddhism, as I understood at the time was sometimes labeled the broad path which comports with the idea that all paths lead to the same end which aligns with the way people tended to live, especially young people, during that period. Hinayana Buddhism, sometimes known as the narrow way is a contrasting approach. I recall something like thirty or forty students in Desani's classes.

Going a bit farther with this, to put this in other words, i.e., the "broad path", "Samsara is Nirvana". Nargajuna. Which idea considered alongside the Rabbinical Jewish notion of man as co-creator, might be seen as adding new meaning thereto - to Samsara being Nirvana. Some take this to mean appearances are not an equivocal manifestation of reality and that the Real is exhausted or wholly manifested in appearances which here means Samsara, the phenomenal world. Further, that the cosmos is an expression of the divine is not in conflict with the sometimes concurrent notion that God withdrew after creating the world in order to make room for man. So, true understanding should be that the Real is searchable and knowable within its material bounds. Doesn't this entail that the Real is emergent rather than transcendent? More a noun than a verb?

So Desani and Rao, and many others - who can forget individuals like the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi - were connected with this cultural shift. It was in the popular culture with groups like the Beatles capitalizing on it. They too traveled to India and performed songs that included the sacred syllable Om. Point is there was a groundswell of interest then in alternative spiritual pursuits to those of the Western traditions. I, along with the teeming masses, was caught up in this. No doubt. I used to think, and would vocalize when prompted, that my interest was in identifying the commonalities of the various world systems of thought, be they spiritual or philosophical.

So I managed to fall in with Desani who had gathered a small group, about a dozen, similar souls. We embedded ourselves in his life as best we could helping with various endeavors of his. There was fellowship, food, drink, mostly sweet tea, dal, and simple fare in general but mostly there was the teacher speaking to us, bringing us ever closer into his orbit which was unlike anything most of us knew. Desani was a man of letters, widely traveled, with boundless interests. He brought a particular style of genius to this, no doubt about it. He dwelled constantly on his spiritual quests in these conversations, and on his literary endeavors. You couldn't count the times he mentioned the books he hoped to publish. You couldn't count the times he spoke of the Nadi texts and related spiritual issues. The whole impetus was to bring about a joint endeavor where the various abilities of his small circle of friends could be brought to bear on furthering his efforts. Team building. I was pleased to be thought worthy to join in this work and continue to this day in the conviction that it is a good work and that Desani's beneficence and that of which he had devotion, his spiritual guides, if you will, were for the betterment of all people everywhere. We were part of a movement. This gave us meaning and purpose, certainly, to help this great teacher of ours to accomplish his altruistic goals.

Well, it didn't quite work out the way it was intended. The world is in an ever increasing mess, to be sure. The books were not published beyond those of his earlier years. His proteges are scattered and mostly, as far as I can tell, rendered ineffective, at least in the larger sense. One should make allowances for the fact that some people labor in secret, however. On the surface, in short, practically nothing has come of those efforts, intentions, of the 1970s, 80s. The memory remains, the intention remains, though weakened, dissipated, while evil triumphs in the world. I recall telling Professor once that he was born at least a hundred years before his time. He made no reply.

Personal ambition acts as an impediment. That too is part of Desani's teaching. One does not enter on this path with expectation. That is failure at the offset, the beginning. Devotion is freely given, selflessly, meaning no expectation of any return, outcome. We live, we love, we freely give obeisance. And, we wait on the Lord. Be humble. As creatures we do not, cannot, know what is going on with this world in spite of what some very intelligent people think. We might approach the Truth but without proper understanding that avails little. These people, which includes most scientists hold the false belief that understanding is only a product of ratiocination. More on this later. But, surely, to know about (a thing) is not to know. To know about is to know a measurement taken, I think, and is far removed from true understanding. It is mistaking, it seems to this one, measurement for understanding. Realize, the Universe is immeasurable and therefore can't be known for the infinite can't be measured. Besides that the immanence of the "Divine creative spirit" could very well mean that the "Universe" is more verb than noun making it even less suseptible to measurement. My thoughts. (God to Moses: Tell them "I am" sends you.)

Perhaps this explains in part why he eschewed world renown. Desani knew he could make himself a world famous figure in the mold of the others of the times such as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He renounced this as mentioned in one of his Nadis. And, most likely, he recognized that most of these people were poseurs and justifiably wanted not to be associated with them. His message to his followers was that one should be satisfied with what comes one's way and if you do try for a particular thing, outcome, and fail three times, then it should be accepted as not intended to happen anyway. So, instead he advanced truly selfless spiritual good centered around love of the Lord, Bhakti (Yoga), as it is named, whose tradition goes back to the Vedas, say, five thousand years. He was not a preacher, but led by example. He meticulously never sought advantage for himself.

No doubt he came into a world unworthy of him. His proteges, including this writer, were not worthy of him. He was like a Christ, a savior, but without the disciples. He did determine to work with what was at hand, however, and one, at least, Todd Katz, tries his utmost to come through for him to this day. I'd charge anyone interested to avail themselves of the material available at Desani.org, particularly the papers he has filed on Google Drive. Also, the so-called (Internet's) Way Back Machine has archives of Mr. Katz's web site.

A further thought on this. Note, on the other hand it was written in his Nadis that those who gathered now to help him were in former lives also helpers; had asked to be allowed to play a similar role in future. And, as noted here, a craft given to the undeserving condemns to great suffering the teacher and the practitioner. One assumes, therefore, that those gathered to him were good, worthy, people in spite of what I say above. At least that is the general appearance. Nevertheless this one made a vow and assume the others did likewise.

Clearly the injunction to not have expectations evades this one. So, I'll leave it alone with the admission that this writer finds it puzzling and must assume that the truth of the matter is hidden to him. The linked document clearly states that this craft takes many lives to come to fruition. So whether someone is worthy or not must be looked at from that perspective.

The linked document mentions one Madame David Neil which should be rendered David-Neel, I believe. Anecdotally, she one day - I'd guess in the 1920s - asked the Buddhist Sakhong gomchen "What is the Supreme Deliverance (tharpa) ? " He answered : "It is the absence of all views and all imagination, the cessation of that mental activity which creates illusions." There is an important footnote here. Namely, "That mental activity which Tibetans call togpa, ratiocination, in contradistinction to togspa (understanding).

This seems quite similar to the first Patanjali Yoga Sutra. "Yoga, nirodha citta vrittis." or, Yoga is the inhibition of the modifications of the mind.

It would be an error to view Desani's citations as endorsements. Often he states a negative view of this or that; often a positive. Tread accordingly. Best to take his work as a whole and drill down from there. A lot can be said but its safe to remember he is not shy about his true beliefs. Other words, he calls them as he sees them. Trust - if he comes up short anywhere it is in believing he will be understood, will be in assuming the reader or student is capable. One might say his high expectation of his reader (acolyte, student, disciple, chela?) acts as a goad or impellant, a device to aid progress, growth. He knew our capacity better that we ourselves. Finally, sometimes his telling of a story became difficult because he would break into laughter because it was so amusing. This was, of course, contagious and made for a very conducive atmosphere there in his sitting room. We were made receptive thereby.

The dal was divine, the tea an elixir of friendship, the speech of the teacher words from the Lord. In other words, sublime, which one might view as beauty, or, in this case, truth, returning whence it arose. Silence.

One thus arives to an understanding that the diamond lotus jewel thus encrusted with its facets of knowledge, wisdom, liberty, and understanding had at the center beauty, truth, and love. To see the petals of the lotus jewel diamond is one thing; to realize the heart, core of which these are expressions, pointers, manifestations is quite another matter. The silence, at the center, the void, is hidden by the limbs, is only realized on merging therewith the consciousness, mind, of the devotee. Though one can't think or rationalize their way to understanding the ultimate purpose and meaning of existence, to Nirvana, if you like, they are essential tools, however, to be laid aside on reaching the goal which needs be pondered in silence wherein is true understanding. One must become by surrender the jewel's center of truth, beauty, love by following knowledge, wisdom, liberty to their source.

So this one wonders, but will never know, what became of Adrian, of Susan, of the nurse who frequently took professor's blood pressure, of her son Bobby, of Lynn Hough, of Josh Farley, of Glenda, Stephen Greenberg, of Mary Ann and Ray Ward. Evidently Allen Smith has passed and I know Blossom Burns has. These were the chosen during my time with Professor.

A MARGINAL COMMENT ON THE PROBLEM OF MEDIUM IN BICULTURES

 Todd Katz writes: "Presented to the Association of Commonwealth Literature and Language Studies, University of Malta, April, 1978. This and other presentations were subsequently collected in Individual and Community in Commonwealth Literature, Daniel Massa, Old University Press, Malta, 1979." The piece is hosted here. Desani writes about the creative process in his Hatterr and Hali and about his personal life as an artist while quoting other literary works. He shares touching confidences about his life and times and how and why these personal experiences influence and form his literature. He gives a sweeping view of human cultures and how they affect one another.

Mr. Katz, as usual, typed up the .pdf version from a printed copy of the piece. I proof read this and submitted back to him. He tells me this is the last piece in his possession, that they are all now available at Desani.org. This body of work would have more or less constituted the book(s) Desani wanted but was unable to publish, he tells me.

I've ventured to make some personal observations about this essay here.

Very High and Very Low

 In 1966 and 1967 Desani published anonymously a regular feature in the Illustrated Weekly of India called Very High and Very Low. In his best eclectic style the series was published fifty three times. Desani discusses in depth world history, comparative religious and philosophical topics, world politics, social commentary, a great many world figures past and present. He runs the gamut from travelogues, personal spiritual quests, everything from why does his laundry person ruin clothes by beating them on rocks to 'siddhis' (powers) allowing for the ability to survive the dissolution of the Universe. He deals intensely with the Nadi texts, writings of which I have written here. I am given to understand by Todd Katz that this collection of the Illustrated Weekly articles is complete. Todd has made these available in pdf form linked here. I have written about the Nadi texts mainly here and in the immediate post preceding this one.

These came to Mr. Katz, as I understand, in the form of copies probably printed from a microfiche. (He didn't tell me and I didn't ask.) He did say somewhere that they were only available in that form. I suspect that someone, perhaps a devotee of Desani, supplied them - besides the point, of course. Anyhow Todd typed them into a 281 page pdf and asked me to proof read them. I did. Readers, should they find any errors, should fix the blame for those on this writer, not Mr. Katz. Desani's writing is esoteric in the extreme when about religion, philosophy, yoga, the Nadi shastras themselves. His use of Sanskrit, and other languages used in India requires a mastery I do not possess. Todd Katz is a master, however and readers should understand that. Desani's writing is unique, his own. It is full of digressions, parenthetical remarks, asides, and such. It is lively, absorbing, actually 'fun' to read him. He never disappoints and always, always keeps his reader in mind. (One could compile a dictionary out of the arcane words and concepts he troubles himself to translate, render in a way that the general public can absorb, understand.)

Finally, as I've mentioned several times there is a 'lost' manuscript of Desani's called "Rissala". I am reliably informed that the "Very High and Very Low" columns are a major part of that manuscript.

Every truth seeker, will find something of interest here, will come away replete with new knowledge, understanding - more importantly. I hope this will serve to renew an interest in his contributions to world literature. I doubt there is anyone in India, the world, who is a greater treasure of the practice of true Yoga, Love of the Lord, of the Divine Father, the Divine Mother. I've also made some comments about "Very High and Very Low" here at Tackingintothewind.net.

Nadi Texts - A Note

 I've written here about Desani's Nadi Texts which contain certain prophecies. These he elected not to emphasize saying it was vulgar to pursue such. The texts were more in the way of instilling love of the Lord, of Bhakti, in the form of letters from divine beings interested in Desani's life particularly. But they did contain predictions about future events, some profound in their implications. I take it that these were issued as acts of benevolence to in some way help the Bhaktas. They were extremely vague, carefully avoiding easily interpreted time frames.

 

Not every prediction made it into my notes. I am writing this about one that did not. Its been many years now but I distinctly recall the Nadi writers saying that there would be a world transformation away from wars involving military conflict. We have witnessed this in our time. Great battles are still being waged but the conflicts now are dominated by weaponized economic sanctions. Whether this will continue is questionable but for the last few years it has definitely been the case. I certainly don't pretend to know being just an observer like everyone else. As stated elsewhere neither do I know that the Nadi Texts were what they were said to be by those responsible for transmitting them to Professor. I do affirm, again, that he took them faithfully trusting in the veracity of the providers, real people with whom he corresponded regularly. They were said to be his property. I recall it was also said he would know what to do with them.

The texts were beautiful to hear. One had the sense of divine presence, of being in grace. Here was a true Jagatguru sharing with his intimate friends correspondence from great beings. The benevolence was palpable, undeniable, real. There were no exhortations, dire warnings of consequences of wrong acts, yet, taken together you couldn't help but notice they were life enhancing, uplifting.

 

It is also worth noting at this point that the texts said that government will do anything they want and that the people would get very angry.

Fear of the unknown is very powerful. One can possibly be taken over, owned, by such. Many treat prophecy as an escape mechanism using it to relieve themselves of the necessity to take full responsibility for their lives. We should treat what we live as discovery rather than fate. I think Professor would agree with this.

Visit Desani.net

I'm moving. Desani.net is where I've landed for the time being. The "way back machine" is also hosting some of this blog.

Update. Due to problems with Wordpress I'm going to make this site mirror Desani.net for the time being.

Ray Randall Ward

It has come to my attention that Ray Ward, a former student of Desani's at the University of Texas was described as Desani's editor here. This is snatching at straws, I know, but absent any other information it is possible that The Rissala manuscript ended up in his possession. Further, it is possible that Ward or his heirs or assigns might have knowledge of its disposition.

Ray Ward was married to Mary Ann (Anne?). We met once in Austin at the Pemberton Parkway residence of Desani's. The Wards had been students of Desani's but moved away before I came on the scene. So I didn't know them. Professor would mention them occasionally. They divorced sometime in the 1990's. That's my vague recollection. I saw Mary Ann post divorce while visiting Professor at his residence after he moved from Blossom Burn's home (Pemberton Parkway, Austin, Texas). This was also after he had a stroke. At some point in the 1990s Stephen Greenberg, another former student, and attorney for Desani, informed me that Desani had moved to Ward's home in Dallas.

Ray remarried Martha Elizabeth (Nee Hudson) in Dallas. They had a son. She passed away in 2014.

According to the above mentioned domain's whois record the registrant is private and expires October, 2019. (enter the domain, hit enter)

While Todd Katz mentions this he doesn't go into detail.

Perhaps this will assist those who come later that might be interested in the fate of Professor Desani's magnum opus.

Iamdying.net is in the wayback machine.

As stated elsewhere I have pretty much withdrawn from pursuing the disposition of The Rissala ms. Desani used to say try something difficult three times. If you meet repeatedly with failure then conclude its just not supposed to happen. Its not willed. That's me and Rissala. Except I exceeded the three several times over. As stated elsewhere here I reached out to he who would have been most likely to know of the disposition of the ms. I was rebuffed. No reply. I asked the University of Texas, Harry Ransom Center, repository for many of Desani's papers whether they knew of the Rissala. They replied in the negative. I've talked to Todd Katz extensively about this. He states that anyone with knowledge of the fate of Rissala would undoubtedly know of his/our interest and efforts and could easily have come forward so something is holding them back.

In Todd's most recent update of Desani.org he writes quite a bit about the atmosphere and disposition of Desani's dozen followers, "disciples", in Austin. I found it very helpful and insightful. You can read it on the home tab under the heading Texas Years at Desani.org. It helped me get beyond the feelings of rejection by my formerly close associates and reminded me that things often are not what they seem. I don't know but maybe fate is teaching me that I am an impediment rather than a facilitator. I won't trouble you with the unsettling effects I've endured because of these doubts except to say that my specific instruction is simply "to yield". Therefore, I'm pretty much off the case unless something falls in my lap as this information about Mr. Ward did.